Legislature(2003 - 2004)
02/12/2003 03:30 PM Senate RES
| Audio | Topic |
|---|
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE
SENATE RESOURCES STANDING COMMITTEE
February 12, 2003
3:30 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Senator Scott Ogan, Chair
Senator Thomas Wagoner, Vice Chair
Senator Fred Dyson
Senator Ralph Seekins
Senator Ben Stevens
Senator Kim Elton
Senator Georgianna Lincoln
MEMBERS ABSENT
All members present
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
Confirmation Hearing: Commissioner of the Department of Natural
Resources Tom Irwin
Overview: Department of Environmental Conservation
WITNESS REGISTER
Commissioner-designee Tom Irwin
Department of Natural Resources
400 Willoughby Ave.
Juneau, AK 99801-1724
Commissioner-designee Ernesta Ballard
Department of Environmental Conservation
410 Willoughby Ave.
Juneau, AK 99801-1795
Mr. Tom Chapple
Division of Air & Water Quality
Department of Environmental Conservation
555 Cordova St.
Anchorage, AK 99501-2617
Mr. Dan Easton
Division of Facility Construction & Operation
Department of Environmental Conservation
410 Willoughby Ave.
Juneau, AK 99801-1724
Ms. Kristin Ryan
Division of Environmental Health
Department of Environmental Conservation
410 Willoughby Ave.
Juneau, AK 99801-1795
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 03-4, SIDE A
Number 0001
CHAIR SCOTT OGAN called the Senate Resources Standing Committee
meeting to order at 3:30 p.m. Senators Elton, Dyson, Seekins,
Wagoner and Chair Ogan were present. Chair Ogan asked Mr. Irwin,
commissioner-designee, to address the committee.
MR. TOM IRWIN, Commissioner-designee of the Department of
Natural Resources (DNR), told members he has been in his current
position since January 17, 2003. He made the following comments
about his philosophy and the department.
Most importantly, he is a Christian and bases his principles on
his faith. He has been married for 35 years and has two adult
daughters who live in Fairbanks and three Alaska-born
grandchildren. He is a graduate of the Colorado School of Mines,
where he focused on mineral engineering and chemistry. He
expected to work in an "oil patch" but got involved in mineral
resource development early in his career. He stated, "As you get
deeply as involved in mineral resources as I have been, I think
it's really important to understand resource is resource and to
me they all have huge importance in this state."
COMMISSIONER-DESIGNEE IRWIN said he clearly supports the
Governor's position on resource development. Resource
development is vital to a strong, healthy, growing economy and
necessary to provide a future and hope for Alaska's children and
grandchildren. Two aspects of resource development are
particularly important. First, a strong economy will allow
Alaska's youth to work and remain in Alaska. Second, the Alaska
environment needs to be as special for Alaska's youth as it is
for him. He believes that both can be accomplished. He
encouraged everyone to look into his environmental
accomplishments during his career. He has received a
commendation from the Nevada Department of Wildlife for care and
concern of Nevada's wildlife resources and a reclamation award
from the Alaska Department of Fish and Game.
COMMISSIONER-DESIGNEE IRWIN said DNR's mission is clear and
appropriate. DNR is to develop, conserve, and maximize the use
of Alaska's natural resources consistent with the public
interest. As commissioner of DNR, he is to represent Alaskans.
He noted he does not presume to know everything about DNR's
issues; the learning curve has been straight up.
His first effort as commissioner has been to build a team. He
said the support he has received from DNR's management has been
excellent. He has spent hours with Mark Myers, the Director of
the Division of Oil and Gas, reviewing technical and legal
information. Mr. Loeffler, the director of the Division of
Mining, Land and Water, has spent hours preparing papers for him
to get up to speed. He noted that Nico Bus is helping him to
understand the numbers. He said his approach to the budget is to
look at program funding as investing with limited dollars. He
plans to look at the net present value and the rate of return.
COMMISSIONER-DESIGNEE IRWIN described his management priorities
as follows.
· When looking for team members, integrity is supreme. He
wants his team to be able to look at themselves in the
mirror every morning and feel okay.
· His employees need to know the information. DNR makes
critical decisions for the state. Employees need to analyze
the data, add scientific and engineering expertise,
understand the situation and make the best decision
possible.
· Teamwork is essential. Team members need to have direction.
Teamwork extends to the Legislature. Everyone is
accountable for doing something special for Alaska.
· Communications - people need to become better listeners and
stop thinking about the argument before hearing all sides.
· Employees need to have enthusiasm.
COMMISSIONER-DESIGNEE IRWIN said he was recently offered a
promotion at a company that is expanding on a global level but
he and his wife could not envision leaving Alaska. Instead, he
left the company to stay in Alaska. At that time, he never
guessed he would now be sitting before the Legislature. He
believes if one loves their family and a place and contributes,
decisions follow logically.
COMMISSIONER-DESIGNEE IRWIN said he is a strong supporter of the
concept of missions and measures. He believes it is vital, when
one has limited funds to invest, to prioritize. One has to be
able to measure to judge success. One has to be flexible. The
world is changing at a high rate of speed. One may have great
measures but the wrong mission. One has to keep updating.
CHAIR OGAN announced that Senators Lincoln and Stevens joined
the meeting shortly after it began. He then opened the meeting
for questions of the commissioner.
3:45 p.m.
SENATOR ELTON asked Commissioner-designee Irwin if he is
satisfied with the existing management team and whether he
anticipates making any changes to that team.
COMMISSIONER-DESIGNEE IRWIN said the folks he is working with
have been very supportive and meet the qualifications; he has
been very satisfied with them. He has not registered his opinion
to the Governor's Office because he intends to put together a
package, part of which is still being evaluated. To date, he has
focused on merging divisions and creating a more efficient
permitting system. He emphasized that the welcome he has
received at DNR has been humbling. The group's accomplishments,
records, and the revenues it has collected are complimentary.
SENATOR ELTON asked when Commissioner-designee Irwin was
appointed.
COMMISSIONER-DESIGNEE IRWIN said he was appointed on January 17.
SENATOR ELTON said his understanding is that the five and ten
percent budget cut scenarios were due to the Governor's Office
on January 8. He asked the commissioner whether he was able to
influence the suggested budget cuts.
COMMISSIONER-DESIGNEE IRWIN said Nico Bus, who knows the numbers
extremely well, prepared that information. Cabinet members have
been attending a commissioner's retreat with the Governor for
the last 2 1/2 days. Commissioners have been looking at what can
be accomplished in a limited budget scenario so he believes the
budget is still open for input.
SENATOR SEEKINS noted he was pleasantly surprised to hear of
Commissioner-designee Irwin's appointment and looks forward to
seeing his approach toward management. He said it seems to him
that it is an administrative function to look for any overlaps
within the departments rather than a legislative responsibility.
He asked Commissioner-designee how he would do that.
COMMISSIONER-DESIGNEE thanked Senator Seekins and recounted that
he was on the Governor's transition team and did not submit his
name as a candidate for this appointment. He felt several other
people were very qualified. He got a call from the Governor's
Office asking him to serve. He said he feels as though he has
been drafted. He and his wife feel that with alignment in DNR,
the Legislature and the Governor's Office, this state can be
improved. He stated:
Missions and measures. I think that answers all of
your comments. Yes, I don't believe anybody can set
out priorities better than the internal group. I
absolutely believe that. But, I also believe that
since we're all in this together, in this as a team -
you folks sign over funds. You're accountable for
folks. If you confirm that I'm in this position, you
also have an accountability and it makes a much
stronger position if we're all on the same page of
what the goals are for Alaska so I think it's our
obligation to bring these ideas up. It doesn't always
work that way I understand, but the way I would do it
is we propose you folks put your intelligence to it
because those things we obviously can miss. Let's get
the priorities and then let's go to work.
SENATOR SEEKINS noted that transferring the Habitat Division
into DNR has received a lot of media attention. He asked
Commissioner-designee Irwin if he would insist on the integrity
of the information brought forward by the Habitat Division
regarding pending fish and game habitat decisions.
COMMISSIONER-DESIGNEE IRWIN said he absolutely sees no conflict
with integrity. He told members:
What we've done, we have taken what I consider the
best of the best in Alaska. We have taken habitat
people - the very people we worked with to achieve the
reclamation award. We've taken habitat people from
down in the Juneau area. We've taken fish and game
people. We've taken legal people. We've taken
representatives from DNR that understand the
priorities and the system and those folks have
literally been moving day after day, in large and
small groups, to understand the issue to make it
correct, to not compromise. We're not here to
compromise. We want a very efficient system where
individuals can ask for, obtain permits, go to work
without compromising any of the values we want for
this state. And so I actually see this putting it in
one house as a huge efficiency and folks that I've
worked with - I'm not going to compromise my
integrity. They're not forming this to compromise
their integrity. These are really good Alaskan people.
SENATOR SEEKINS asked if his philosophy of doing the best job
without compromising integrity is in step with the Governor.
COMMISSIONER-DESIGNEE IRWIN said absolutely. He said the
Governor took some heat about why he wasn't filling certain
positions, his being one. The [delay] was caused by the fact
that they were having in-depth communications about priorities.
He felt they were in sync when he agreed to take the job.
CHAIR OGAN commented that he finds Commissioner-designee Irwin's
candor when speaking politically incorrectly about his faith and
profession to be refreshing.
3:59 p.m.
SENATOR LINCOLN noted that the Governor, in his State of the
State address, remarked, "As a majority of the state's resource
development will take place in rural Alaska, rest assured that
rural Alaska will have a seat at the table during the decision-
making process." She said she represents 129 of those
communities and would like to know how he intends to implement
that.
COMMISSIONER-DESIGNEE IRWIN said that Tara Sweeney (ph) is
helping him to arrange visits to the villages. He said he
continues to hear the Governor make the same comment, and he
agrees that DNR needs to be getting input.
SENATOR LINCOLN asked how talking to people in the villages will
provide rural Alaska with a seat at the table during the
decision making process.
COMMISSIONER-DESIGNEE IRWIN said the executive order only moves
the Habitat Division and Coastal Zone Management Agency into
DNR. DNR will then have to work with the House and Senate to
formulate a new structure. He feels it will be appropriate to
take input at that point.
SENATOR LINCOLN said that yesterday, a committee discussed
extending the railroad into Canada. There was disagreement about
a segment that would cross a village. Last year, hearings were
held about building a highway along the Yukon River to access
resources. She commented that she hopes dialogue occurs not only
during the decision making process, but also during the planning
and implementation phases.
SENATOR WAGONER said he comes from a rich commercial fishing
area and has received e-mail messages from constituents doubting
whether it is a good move to transfer the Habitat Division to
DNR. As far as he is concerned, the jury is still out on that
question. He continues to support the Governor's decision, but
he will be watching. He noted that this Saturday he will be
speaking to the Cook Inlet Aquaculture Association. He asked for
assurance that the Habitat Division will continue to do habitat
business as it has in the past and that its mission to protect
Alaska's streams and salmon runs will not be diminished in any
way.
COMMISSIONER-DESIGNEE IRWIN replied:
Senator Wagoner, I can tell you wholeheartedly to the
best of our abilities that is not going to happen -
one, because of our goals in DNR, but also because of
the individuals involved through Habitat - and the
individuals involved through Habitat - the research
side, they have strong principles also and they care
incredibly and I've worked so much with some of these
people. As an example, I know this works - we built a
reservoir outside of Fairbanks - a 3,500-acre foot
reservoir. That reservoir, because Habitat had their
priorities, Habitat had their goals, but they had the
willingness to work with industry. And industry had
their goals but the priorities also to take care of
the environment. What we ended up with was a team
effort - was no compromise of the environment at all
but a very clear enhancement of the environment. We
now have a reservoir because of the team effort that
in ten years was supposed to have several thousand
'catchable' grayling. Right now, it has far exceeded
any of the ten-year goals in the first few years. The
marked grayling - Al Ott, Habitat, particularly
contributed to the success of this. He never
compromised his principles but he used his huge
intelligence to say if you guys do this it might cost
a little more but I can help you over here because
this does nothing for the environment.
With that type of approach, we now have a reservoir,
and I think you must know that the Interior of Alaska
has been greatly depleted of grayling. This reservoir
we built is now estimated to hold 25 percent of the
grayling in the Interior of Alaska. These tagged
grayling are now going over the spillway. This river
was an impaired water body. Because of the work we've
all done, it's cleaned up. The Little Chena to the
Chena that flows through Fairbanks, into the Tanana,
they found unmarked Grayling clear up near Delta.
We're going to, because of this type of cooperation
you're asking about, we're going to repopulate the
Interior of Alaska with grayling. I firmly believe it
because it's happening.
That's the kind of goal we want. I'm not compromising
the people working together to make things work for
the best, not to delay or tear things apart.
Certainly, they want multiple levels. We want it to
just work and work efficiently.
SENATOR DYSON asked Commissioner-designee Irwin if he shares his
high opinion of Mark Myers and whether he intends to retire him.
COMMISSIONER-DESIGNEE IRWIN said that Mark Myers has been a
tremendous help to him. He said he will put together a package
and Mr. Myers' name will be in it.
SENATOR ELTON asked Commissioner-designee Irwin if he is
comfortable with the fiscal note for HB 57 as it was originally
issued.
COMMISSIONER-DESIGNEE IRWIN said he signed and agrees with it.
CHAIR OGAN said he is very supportive of the Governor's actions
to transfer the Division of Habitat Restoration and the Coastal
Zone Management Agency to DNR because he has seen agency turf
wars that create permitting problems at the 11th hour at great
expense to permittees. However, he is concerned about the law of
unintended consequences and the consolidation of power within
one department. He noted that Commissioner-designee Irwin would
be the most powerful DNR commissioner in the history of Alaska.
He commented that it is important to look at the downside of the
consolidation and keep the bigger picture in mind.
COMMISSIONER-DESIGNEE IRWIN said he accepts that as wise counsel
and he will look for sideboards. He said he could relate to that
concern because he has been privileged to be involved in some
very special properties. He said he questions how to make
certain that, when he is gone, the State of Alaska is protected.
He repeated that he would look for sideboards.
CHAIR OGAN said he was excited about the Governor's announcement
but said that consolidating power is a daunting responsibility.
There being no further questions, SENATOR DYSON moved to forward
Mr. Irwin's name to the full body for a confirmation vote.
CHAIR OGAN announced that with no objection, the motion carried.
The committee took a brief at-ease and, upon reconvening, CHAIR
OGAN welcomed Commissioner-designee Ballard and asked her to
tell members about the Cabinet retreat.
DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL CONSERVATION OVERVIEW
COMMISSIONER-DESIGNEE ERNESTA BALLARD, Department of
Environmental Conservation (DEC), told members that during the
Cabinet retreat, DEC, ADF&G, and DNR agreed that when a scoping
announcement is made for a federal environmental impact
statement (EIS), they would work with federal agencies
throughout the process to anticipate permit requirements. That
way, by the time the preferred alternative is finally selected
and the record of decision is signed, the departments would be
ready to issue the permits.
TAPE 03-4, SIDE B
COMMISSIONER-DESIGNEE BALLARD said DEC has proposed two
legislative initiatives to the Governor: one modifies and
streamlines the contingency response planning process for the
entire oil industry; the other will overhaul DEC's air
permitting program. The changes will make the permitting process
easier while maintaining the same environmental standards. She
noted that DEC used a stakeholder process last year, which
resulted in an agreed-upon position from the stakeholder groups
and proposed legislation.
COMMISSIONER-DESIGNEE BALLARD agreed with Chair Ogan that DEC
should provide industry with a linear permit process that
provides certainty for permit applicants, financiers, and
stakeholders.
SENATOR SEEKINS asked if any of Alaska's environmental standards
exceed national standards.
COMMISSIONER-DESIGNEE BALLARD said one aspect of water
permitting in Alaska results in a strict permitting regime,
which should be changed. She favors getting state primacy of the
federal wastewater discharge program [NPDES], which would allow
the state to exercise regulatory discretion with mixing zones or
zones of deposit. The Legislature has provided funds to enable
DEC to bring the program forward by the end of this year.
MR. TOM CHAPPLE, Director of the Division of Air and Water
Quality, told members that Alaska has naturally occurring high
levels of contaminants, such as arsenic and suspended solids
from glacial rivers that do not meet the expected water quality
standards. Therefore, an industrial process may use water from a
stream or lake that does not meet water quality standards so
discharging that same water becomes problematic. DEC's
regulations allow it to recognize a naturally occurring high
level of contaminants.
MR. CHAPPLE explained that DEC does regulate emissions and other
things not regulated under federal law. The Clean Air Act
requires pollutant sources over a certain size to be permitted.
States decide which smaller sources to regulate. DEC has an
emission level standard that requires asphalt plants to be
permitted. As a result, the federal law appears to be less
stringent than the state permit program because the federal law
does not directly speak to asphalt plants.
Regarding cost recovery of state acceptance of the primacy role
in wastewater discharge, MR. CHAPPLE said the cost of permitting
programs for the air quality program is completely recovered
through fees but the water quality program costs are not. He
told members that the study to accept NPDES primacy would
include recommendations for cost recovery.
CHAIR OGAN expressed concern that DEC's strict water quality
standards have put "mom and pop" placer operations out of
business. He said those standards are appropriate if water is
being discharged into a clear stream, but they don't work for
all cases.
MR. CHAPPLE told members that placer mines still exist in Alaska
but some are not being mined because of the price of gold. He
noted that many placer miners have a retention basin that, in
most cases, does not have a discharge because the solids settle
out. Their discharge permits allow discharge because of high
runoff. In answer to concerns expressed about whether
discharging wastewater with contaminants is prohibited if those
contaminants were present on the intake, he said those stories
do not make sense and he would like to provide legislators with
a more informative response at a later date.
COMMISSIONER-DESIGNEE BALLARD told members the existing DEC
management team is outstanding, however the Governor has
requested commissioners to take the time necessary to review all
senior level positions and analyze the vacant positions. She
said that she has not finished that process yet.
Regarding the DEC seafood lab, SENATOR ELTON suggested the ASI
building in Anchorage could be reconfigured to fit DEC's needs
since the current lessee has been unable to make any lease
payments. That building is a state-of-the-art lab, owned by the
Alaska Industrial Development & Export Authority (AIDEA).
After further discussion about the proposed lab and the
Livingston Slone study, CHAIR OGAN instructed Commissioner-
Designee Ballard to provide the committee with a copy of the
cost analysis and lab analysis.
SENATOR ELTON asked that DEC discuss the matter with AIDEA
rather than ASI.
COMMISSIONER-DESIGNEE BALLARD expressed caution that time is of
the essence because DEC must have a laboratory to protect public
health and its current lab will no longer be available in a few
years. She noted that the Livingston Slone team reviewed the
cost effectiveness of remodeling the ASI facility versus
building a new facility and found a new building to be
preferable.
SENATOR LINCOLN talked about the lack of sanitation facilities
and dust control in the 129 communities she represents and the
resulting negative health effects. She said she is tired of
studies and committed any amount of time required of her to
discuss the common denominators that could be causing disease in
her communities.
COMMISSIONER-DESIGNEE BALLARD invited Senator Lincoln to meet
with Dan Easton of DEC, Dr. Jim Berner of the Alaska Native
Tribal Health Consortium and herself the following morning. She
also offered to review the funding priorities used by DEC for
the Village Safe Water Program at a later date. She noted that
DEC is spending about $50 to $60 million per year on rural
sanitation.
The committee resumed discussion of the DEC lab. COMMISSIONER-
DESIGNEE BALLARD told members that the new lab needs to have
about 19,000 square feet. The growth of the geoduck industry has
increased the lab requirements because DEC is testing for
paralytic shellfish poisoning, a deadly toxin. A majority of
that space will be used for heat and ventilation systems. A
small amount of space will be used for administrative
activities.
CHAIR OGAN said he would consider appointing a subcommittee to
review the matter but not at this time.
The committee meeting was adjourned at 5:00 p.m.
| Document Name | Date/Time | Subjects |
|---|